i have to admit there are a lot of wine makers here that know a lot more about this than i do , but i have to give my 2 cents worth, take it with a grain of salt. after reading all the postings about wine making, i find that it is getting away from the home brew style of wine making that has made great wines down through the ages. back then nobody ever heard of sulfites or sorbates or any of the other chemicals that are now used in wine making now days, they used what they could get for bases, natural sweeteners, good sanitation, and home made ingenuity, to come up with something that they liked. that is the route i have been useing for many years, and i think that it don't have to be so complicated as some people would like to make it. excuse me for the rant, but tonight i decided to go back and find some of my old wines in the cellar and check for any signs of ageing, and i'm pretty well toasted.
cheers, gary

While I totally agree with keeping the "spirit" of home fermenting alive, i think some level of modern touch is simply an improvement on a good idea.

My grandparents made beer back on the farm in the 40's and 50's without the use of sanitizers. Does that mean we shouldn't use sanitizers now? I don't think there's anything wrong with using modern knowledge to ensure the recipes of yesteryear can be produced with some consistency and a reduced level of waste. We're still not tampering at anything near the level of commercial wineries/breweries.

P.S. I am well toasted on my own brew as well. Some of the best conversations I've had involve some level of home-made intoxication. Cheers, Gary!

Yes wine can be made that way. But whats wrong with a little improvement to ensure that everything you make comes out right especially if it is one you are going to put some money into. Usually when someone wants to do this I say do some the old way and some the new way this will ensure that you have wine just in case something goes wrong. It will also ensure that you know what kind of alcohol you are drinking. We have learned alot since the dark ages somethings are improvements some not, I'll bet you have a color TV.LOL

i really don't see that it is an improvement to add chemicals to my wine, that can be made a lot easier and without the added expense, by useing natural ingredients and good brewing practises. if you watch what you are doing these additives are not needed to produce wines that are as good or better than those that you can buy. the big wineries and breweries use all kinds of these modern "tools" in their processes but they are in the commercial side of brewing, they need these things to produce in bulk and insure shelf life, the home brewer has the advantage of working with nature to get that quality wine.
gary

You are right but like I said in a diferent post the racking I make without adding the sulphite allways leaves me uneasy I always feel like I missed something, what did I pick up that wasn't sanitized ,what did I accidently forget to sanitize. So the improvement is I might miss something small and 1/16 tsp of sulphite will help me out here and not have a spoiled wine.

They have been making wine for thousands of years. The problem is shelf life and consistancy in the wine you make. That is difficult without some measurements and chemicals.

I guess the argument to this is the wine making process produces a level of sulphite and alcohol to preserve the wine but in the old day wine was made aged quickly and drank. I dont think anyone held on to it for 5 years. I am i wrong?

i didn't mean that these additives shouldn't ever be used in wine making, i'm just saying that good wine can be made without them. down through the years i have found a procedure that has worked for me, and i try to stick to it as close as possible for most of my wines. i try to keep it as simple as i can, that way i won't mess something up, and i can repeat the recipe when i want to. you will rarely get the taste exactly the same between batches, but who cares, they all turn out pretty good. as for shelf life, if the wine is bottled right, and is kept at a consistent temperature there is no reason it shouldn't be just as good when you open it, as it was when you put it up, no matter how many years it's been. the main thing is, keep everything clean and trust nature to do it's job.
gary

I do agree somewhat, that I have gone overboard with the hobby. I keep a good supply of chemicals in my wine cupboard. Plus I have a wine room in my shop that is heated and air-conditioned separately from the shop. It stays at 70 degrees year around. I also have a filter, bottling machine, hydrometer, titration acid test kit, malic acid test kit, refractor, device to measure alcohol. For storage I have two wine reefers. One holds about 500 bottles, the other hold about 180 bottles. The only piece of antique equipment is my capper/corking machine. Paid $17 for it 40 years ago. LOL. Now I am also into beer and I am trying to hold down the hobby costs. That is tough because there is basic equipment you really need.

This is the only way to crush and destem grapes.

that's one thing about brewing, there are lots of things available to make it easier, and a person can get into it as deep as he wants. when i built my garage i built a insulated ,sterile room inside it to support another hobby i had. when that faze was over, it was a store room for a few years, then when i started brewing on a larger scale i modified it again and turned it into my cool room, now it's almost full of all the brewing gadgets i've accumulated over the years. i keep my room at 75F and enjoy working inside, especially with the AZ, temps. outside. it looks like you got a really nice setup there, something to be proud of, and makes it all worthwhile. good luck with your beer brewing, i find it's more challenging than my wine making.
gary

Looks nice cant wait to move out of kitchen and bedroom for this hoby. Dreaming of the day to have shop out back just for it.