Chlorine

by **bob1** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:23 pm

Whats the deal with chlorine? I have been bringing city water to a boil and just letting it cool back down. Chlorine has such a low boiling point that once water hits rolling boil like 200 degree within an hour the chlorine has to have evaporated. I dont even wait and let it set overnight.I dont taste anything bad in the beer I've made so far except when I do something dum.

by **curlyfat** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:12 am

I use water straight out of the tap now. It's city and is treated with chlorine, and if you try really hard you can taste it. I've never had it come through in the beer. My thought is, I'm boiling it in the end anyway, so that should take care of it. Also, the taste is so ridiculously subtle in the first place, the taste of beer hides it completely (if it's even still there). Maybe your city water is stronger, I don't know.

by **wyo wino** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:52 pm

In many of the rural areas and I guess even in some cities they don't use chlorine anymore. They have a chemical that doesn't dissipate as quickly as chlorine. Wish I was on city water. I'm on a well and just use bottled water for beer and wine.

by **Kevin** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:12 pm

With Chlorine, it is the yeast that matters.

Chlorine is injected as a gas into the water and diminishes as it comes in contact with various microbes or organic and metallic compounds. The use of Chloromine is replacing Chlorine because it can be added at a central point and stays stable through the whole water system. Chloromine does not gas or boil out.

Chlorine can attach to the melanoidins in malt and survive the boil. The yeast can then process the chlorine into chlorophenol as a way to sequester it, rendering it harmless to the yeast. Chlorophenol is perceptable in parts per billion, far lower than the perception of chlorine.

The amount of chlorophenol is dependent on the strain of yeast. Those yeasts that already produce phenol (like German Weizen and Belgian strains) are more likely to create chlorophenol. The strains that are typically clean won't really create any from the amount in tap water, unless they are severely stressed, like with high fermentation temperatures. Using Chlorine as a sanitizer can create concentrations that even clean yeasts will turn to chlorophenol. Chlorophenol tastes medicinal, like burnt brown sugar (or burnt molasses) and harshly bitter.

Chlorine can be removed easily with Campden tablets. It only takes one tablet to treat 20 gallons of water. Campden is Potassium Metabisulfate, which is what wine makers use to sulfite their must. Brewers use it in far lower levels, so it doesn't inhibit yeast activity. What happens is the chlorine is broken down into chloride, CO2 and water.

by **bob1** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:30 am

Ok but seems to me if the water is brought to a boil, chlorine having a boiling point of 95 degrees,bringing the water to a boil would cause it to through off anything that tried to atatch to it, so seems to me the chlorine would be gone pretty quick. I even wonder If the water really even needs to break a boil to dispel the chlorine. Maybe I only need to bring it to the 154 I need and let it set for minute .

by **Kirby** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:59 am

[quote="Kevin"]With Chlorine, it is the yeast that matters.

Chlorine is injected as a gas into the water and diminishes as it comes in contact with various microbes or organic and metallic compounds. The use of Chloromine is replacing Chlorine because it can be added at a central point and stays stable through the whole water system. Chloromine does not gas or boil out.

Does the charcoal water filter work on Chloromine the same as it does Chlorine. Just curious as our city water is still using Chlorine and I prefilter it mainly to get rid of the Chlorine and all the crap that comes through the lines.

by **Stihler** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:55 pm

Does the charcoal water filter work on Chloromine the same as it does Chlorine?

The answer to your question is yes, a carbon filter will remove both chlorine and chloromine.

Alternatively one can also treat your water with Campden tablets. A single Campden tablet should be sufficient to treat 20 gallons of water chlorinated/chloraminated to 3 mg/L which is typical of most supplies.

There was a very good posting on this subject by A.J. deLange on Homebrew Digest a while back.

I've cut and pasted his posting below:
Homebrew Digest #5366 Thu 10 July 2008 (http://www.hbd.org)

Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 08:27:33 -0400
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Chloramine and Campden Tablets

Dr. Wizzard is quite correct: Campden tablets are a fine way of removing
chloramine (and chlorine) from water though as I noted in an earlier
post my homebrew supplier has reported that he and one of his customers
had problems with batches of beer which they blamed on the use of
Campden tablets. Polling readers of HBD showed that many dechlorinate by
this method as a matter of course and have been doing so for years. Thus
we dismiss the problems these 2 brewers encountered as most likely to
have been caused by something else.

The reaction of momochloramine with bisulfite goes as

S2O5-- + 2 H2NCl + 3H2O --> 2SO4-- + 2H+ + 2Cl- + 2NH4+

IOW the sulfite is oxidized to sulfate and the chloramine reduced to
chloride and ammonium ions. Thus mash sulfate is increased slightly
while the yeast will consume the ammonium (frequently an ingredient in
packaged yeast nutrients). The details of the stoichimetry can be found
in my old BT article at http://ajdel.wetnewf.org:81/ but roughly
speaking 1 Campden tablet should be sufficient to treat 20 gallons of
water chlorinated/chloraminated to 3 mg/L which is typical of most
supplies. In this case your nose is a good enough instrument for
determining a proper (if not the exact) dose. If, after treatment, you
can smell chlorine, more bisulfite is needed. If, after treatment, you
smell sulfur dioxide, you have added too much bisulfite. Use a little
less next time but a bit of excess at the levels being discussed here
won't hurt a bit.

So if your goal is to dechlorinate/dechloraminate AND deoxygenate then
observe that it takes 2 Campden tablets per 5 gallons to get the oxygen
out and 1/4 Campden tablet (per 5 gallons) to get the
chlorine/chloramine at the normal maximum level of 3 mg/L. Thus if you
dose with 2 tablets per 5 gallons you will certainly get all the
chlorine/chloramine and most of the oxygen. Add the extra quarter tablet
if you like. Note that there is no reason to deoxygenate mash, sparge or
kettle makeup water. It is important to deoxygenate water used to dilute
beer after fermentation and before bottling.

Cheers,

Scott

P.S. The link A.J. gave no longer appear to work. Oh well....

by **wyo wino** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:43 pm

I read somewhere that UV also breaks down chlorine and chloramine.

by **wyo wino** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:44 pm

I use a UV light system. Not to rid chlorine but to kill bugs since I am on a well.

by **bob1** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:11 pm

but why is the chlorine not gone by the time water boils? Its boiling point is 95 degree.

by **Kevin** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:15 am

bob1 wrote:but why is the chlorine not gone by the time water boils? Its boiling point is 95 degree.

Evaporation requires time and surface area. Water boils at 212, but it doesn't instantly vaporize away! Alcohol boils at a low temperature, but a still doesn't get it all in mere seconds.

by **bob1** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:47 pm

Being I understand one cannot see steam, I guess I forget that things are a little slower at standard atmospheric presure , I get the still thing Keven nice job. I dont know how long they boiled for but do know they had first runnings and secound runnings which had to be mixed to create a drinkable shine. That would mean though even by the time you were warm enough to create steam the alcohol is still there or you wouldnt have it in the secound runnings.

by **ferlyn388** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:45 am

I am from a rural place and our tap water smells much of chlorine. I just don't like the smell that even after we boil it the smell is still there. I know they are used to clean the water and I appreciate using clean water when taking a bath. But to drink the water that smells of chlorine is not much to my preference, so instead we drink filtered water.

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